Bryan Johnson: “Death is a Technical Problem”

Taking 111 pills a day, he’s a researcher and his own guinea pig. The tech tycoon Bryan Johnson wants to put a halt to aging and calls on humanity to start a revolution. His slogan is “Don’t die!”

In his eyes, it’s high time that AI took over the task of saving Earth.

On June 12, 1920, noted French surgeon Serge Voronoff sliced the testicles of a chimpanzee into pieces and implanted them into a man’s scrotum. The aim of the procedure was to make the patient’s body permanently younger. For this intervention, Voronoff demanded 100,000 gold francs, but it failed to produce any verifiable results.

Johnson, a 46-year-old American multimillionaire, might be at least a step ahead of Voronoff in the fight for eternal youth. The morning of our interview, he has invited two reporters into his black and gray concrete bungalow in Los Angeles’ Venice neighborhood. The interior is as cold and sterile as an operating room: no family photos or personal items that could reveal anything about their owner. If you were the set designer of a Hollywood film, this place is where you would have a cyborg living, that hybrid of man and machine who has seeped into the collective imagination thanks to blockbusters including Robocop.

DAGMAR VON TAUBE AND SVEN MICHAELSEN: Mr. Johnson, you are one of four siblings who grew up in a small Mormon community in Utah. Were you a happy child?

BRYAN JOHNSON: There was a traumatic [phase] and [there was] a happy phase in my childhood. When I was three years old, my parents divorced. My mother earned very little and had to support five children. When we needed new clothes, she was forced to sit down at the sewing machine. She got remarried when I was eight. My stepfather had a trucking company that he inherited from his dad, big 18-wheeler trucks, and we hauled things around the area. Afterwards, we belonged to the middle class and were accepted members of the community.

DVT/SM: What were you like as a teenager?

BJ: Maybe in seventh grade, I was becoming aware of how kids in school were starting to branch off into groups – nerds and stoners and jocks, and the different classes of people. I drew a sociogram and marked the students who were the center of power in their respective groups. My plan wasn’t to just have friends in individual groups. I wanted to be friends with everybody. And it worked. After a couple of weeks, I was the most popular person at school. I became the captain of the football team and an Eagle Scout in Boy Scouts, the highest rank you can reach in that organization.

DVT/SM: After finishing school, you were a Mormon missionary in Ecuador for two years.

BJ: I lived among extremely poor people there. When I returned to the comparatively rich environment of the USA at the age of 22, I had a fire burning inside me: I wanted to revolutionize the human species. Natural selection has been tinkering with living bodies for four million years, and there is no reason to assume that Homo sapiens is its final chapter. Take a look at my bookshelves. I mainly read biographies ... Plato, Lenin, Stalin, and Harry Truman ... Dante, Winston Churchill, Warren Buffett, and Dietrich Bonhoeffer. Each of these men did something completely unexpected in the eyes of their contemporaries – and that’s why they went down in history.

DVT/SM: You belonged to the Mormon Church of Jesus Christ of Latterday Saints until the age of 34. Does this upbringing explain your messianic stance?

BJ: No. What was decisive was something else completely. I became the person sitting across from you today because of my severe depression.

DVT/SM: How long did that last?

BJ: Ten years. I drank too much alcohol, was 50 pounds overweight and suicidal. Every day, my brain would say, in an endless loop: “Bryan, your life is meaningless. You should kill yourself now and not wait for tomorrow. But first have a big bag of brownies and a few drinks.” Sundays were the worst. No distraction from work, and then endless church service. I broke out in a cold sweat every time. If I had watched some porn on my computer, I went to confession like I was remote-controlled. Shame and guilt had been instilled in me from an early age.

DVT/SM: When did your depression start?

BJ: At 24. I had founded Braintree, a company for online pay systems that was growing rapidly. But my marriage was falling apart just as fast. After work, I would lie paralyzed in bed or would argue with my wife. I went to therapists, but that didn’t help, either. I was leading a life without any hope.

DVT/SM: Didn’t your faith provide any help?

BJ: On the contrary. The Mormons believe that they’re the only true church of God. If someone in our congregation fell away, nobody would speak to them for the rest of their lives. I married a Mormon woman at the age of 24, and I had three children with her. In the years that followed, I secretly stopped being a Mormon, but expressing my lack of belief would have meant divorce and being excluded from social life. I didn’t have the courage to leave until I was 34. I got divorced and sold my company to PayPal for 800 million dollars at the same time. My depression vanished.

DVT/SM: Did the money cure you?

BJ: No. I don’t care about money, and I don’t have any expensive needs. I own this house and an electric car by Audi. I don’t aspire to own anything else. The fact that I have my hands in [about] 50 biotech companies is merely a means to an end. I use the profits to finance visionary ideas and my journey to find eternal youth, the greatest biological revolution since the dawn of life.

DVT/SM: Do you see yourself as a kind of Übermensch who has stepped into God’s shoes and is rewriting his plan for creation?

BJ: That’s an exaggeration, but it hits the nail on the head. We think that death is inevitable for all of us because everyone before us has died. Climate crisis, refugees, war – you could resign yourself to each of these problems and say: “Well, what’s the point, we’re all going to die sooner or later anyway. After us, the flood.” Religions serve the same function. By ... promising us eternal life in Heaven, they turn us into passive spectators. We don’t act, we just wait for a higher power to redeem us. The revolution I’m calling every person to join can be summed up in two words: “Don’t die!” It’s more than just a joke when I say that Jesus Christ is my greatest rival. After all, he was the one who convinced us that death is our final destiny. But I say that death is a technical problem that can be solved.

“Jesus Christ is my greatest rival.”

DVT/SM: Two years ago, you founded Project Blueprint, a team of 30 experts ... meant to ensure that your 46-year-old organs become 18 again – and stay that way forever. To reach this goal, you take 111 pills a day and live like an ascetic. You eat your last meal at 11 in the morning and go to sleep at 8:30pm. At night, a penis sensor measures the number and duration of your erections. Who came up with this rigid regime?

BJ: Until recently, our brains were the most advanced thing evolution had produced. Homo sapiens was a master architect that couldn’t be beat, but in recent years we’ve reached the limits of our abilities. We’re failing to address all the problems that threaten to destroy us and our world. That’s why we need something radically different, and it’s not conventional doctors or alternative practitioners. It’s high time for a new architect to be appointed.

DVT/SM: And who would that be?

BJ: Artificial intelligence. AI is more advanced than the human mind: it’s faster, smarter, more rational, and more far-sighted. Who should I let take control over my health: my moody monkey brain or an objectively judging software that doesn’t fall for my tricks to order a large pizza with a ton of cheese? Day in day out, my 79 organs are closely monitored. AI turns the results of the measurements into a rejuvenation plan. It’s not my unreliable brain that tells me how to live, it’s an algorithm. Personalizing this algorithm for other people lies at the heart of Project Blueprint. My 75 trillion cells are only a guinea pig. I’m aware of the fact that giving up control to AI is the greatest possible insult to human egos. But we’ve almost ruined this planet, and that’s why Homo sapiens should be fired. I think it’s high time that AI takes over in saving the [world]. Evolution is going to be replaced by intelligent technologies; 99.9 percent of our current life forms will be gone and forgotten in 400 years.

DVT/SM: Life expectancy doubled in the 20th century. What’s your roadmap for immortality?

BJ: By 2030, the age of my organs is expected to decrease by 25 percent. As things stand, this is a goal I will achieve. My rate of aging is lower than 88 percent of all 18-year-olds. My heart is 37, my bones are 28, my skin is 28, and my lungs are 18. My blood count is almost identical to that of my 18-year-old son. If you think I’m just making these numbers up, you can take a look at my website blueprint.bryanjohnson.com. My biometric data from the last few years is there for anyone to check.

“My left ear is 64 from shooting guns as a teenager. My right ear is 49 – too much loud rock music as a teenager.”

DVT/SM: Where are your problem areas?

BJ: My left ear is 64 from shooting guns as a teenager. My right ear is 49 – too much loud rock music as a teenager.

DVT/SM: Why do you wear an “Adam Sensor” on your penis at night?

BJ: Because everyone has a sexual age, and the Adam Sensor can measure [it] in men. With the help of shockwave therapy, I’ve been able to increase the total length of my nightly erections to an average of two hours and twelve minutes. My goal is to get to the time of an 18-year-old: three hours and thirty minutes.

DVT/SM: In the popular science bestseller Homo Deus (2015), Yuval Noah Harari describes our future as a constant succession of medical upgrades: “Every ten years or so we will march into the clinic and receive a makeover treatment that will not only cure illnesses, but will also regenerate decaying tissues, and upgrade hands, eyes, and brains. Before the next treatment is due, doctors will have invented a plethora of new medicines, upgrades, and gadgets.” Are you of the same opinion?

BJ: Yeah, it could happen like that. The ten-year increments are pure speculation, of course. I suspect that we will see the first immortal humans in about 60 years from now.

DVT/SM: Since 2012, you have invested over four million dollars in ... Project Blueprint. Will a dramatically longer life ... be a privilege [only] of the wealthy?

BJ: No, money is not the decisive factor. The [cost] for my food and supplements is only 1,200 dollars a month. What you need, however, is the unwavering determination to live in the way AI tells you to.

DVT/SM: Let’s assume that the average lifespan increases 150 years. How many separations, how much grief, how much loss can our soul handle?

BJ: You’re making a typical mental error by extending our present into a linear future. In the coming years, AI will [provide] leaps in development that none of us can imagine. Our souls will be shaped by new morals and ethics. That’s why your question is meaningless.

DVT/SM: Our planet has been brought to the brink of collapse by the reality of eight billion people living on Earth. Will immortality ... be granted [only] to those who do not want to reproduce?

BJ: I don’t have a crystal ball that can see into the future, but I’m convinced that AI will also provide solutions for overpopulation, famine, and the climate crisis.

“I’ve been able to increase the total length of my nightly erections to an average of two hours and twelve minutes. My goal is to get to the time of an 18-year-old: three hours and thirty minutes.”

DVT/SM: Immortality is another word for hell for philosophers. Wouldn’t eternity be infinitely boring?

BJ: Why should the opinions of philosophers matter to us? People seem to think differently, otherwise the anti-aging market wouldn’t have such huge growth rates. I am like the first astronaut, flying into the future in a spaceship that everyone can see. There’s a universe of questions in front of me that we still don’t have answers to. One possible future is that each of us will live thousands of lives. That doesn’t seem boring to me.

DVT/SM: Do you see any ethical limitations to Project Blueprint?

BJ: Douglas MacArthur was one of the top commanders of the US Army during World War Two and one of the most decorated soldiers our country has ever produced. His most famous phrase is that “you are remembered for the rules you break.” Ethics and morals are cultural phenomena bound in time. They were not dictated to us by nature; we created them ourselves. A society that fails to adapt its ethics to a changing world will inevitably decline.

DVT/SM: Around 500,000 people follow you on Instagram. How do you deal with the comments that mock you as a crazy Frankenstein?

BJ: The basketball player LeBron James spends 1.5 million dollars on his body a year, and people say, “Cool, dude.” I’m something people haven’t seen yet. That’s why people stick ugly labels on me, like “wacky biohacker,” but I don’t have any problem living with that.

DVT/SM: Your plans [encompass] sabotaging God’s plan for creation. Aren’t you afraid of being targeted by religious fanatics?

BJ: I’m not afraid to leave the house alone yet, but sometimes I think about hiring a bodyguard for public appearances. Sadly, this country’s full of delusional people who own guns.

DVT/SM: Is there anything that scares you about life?

BJ: I can’t think of anything. Instead of being afraid, I analyze the reasons that lead to fear. When people talk to me about their fears, I don’t get it. I don’t know this feeling and don’t understand it.

DVT/SM: Suppose one of your three children is hovering between life and death after a car accident. Isn’t that fear?

BJ: No. That’s not fear for me, it’s an interest in the wellbeing of my child, and, of course, I have that.

DVT/SM: On a safari, an elephant suddenly attacks you: you aren’t afraid?

BJ: No. To me, this situation would be a game of strategy where the point would be to not die.

DVT/SM: Are you able to love?

BJ: Romantic love doesn’t exist. There’s infatuation, but what people call love is a made-up feeling that results in romanticization and idealization. Look at most marriages. The partners tell the outside world that they love each other and that they’re happy. But if you look behind the façade, you’ll find frustration, unhappiness, and open hatred. I know how much animosity can develop in a partnership from my previous relationships.

DVT/SM: Your heart has never jumped with joy?

BJ: It has, but that [entailed] biochemical stimuli of nature telling me to reproduce. What’s called love is a programming of our genes that has developed over the course of evolution and serves to propagate our species.

DVT/SM: Does someone like you have friends?

BJ: A lot, in fact. And don’t forget that I communicate with my three children. My 18-year-old lives under the same roof as me. My eldest is currently on a mission for the Mormon Church. My 13-year-old daughter lives with her mother.

DVT/SM: Are you single right now?

BJ: Yes. And that’s why there’s no bitterness or hatred in my life. When I was married, I lived in a world full of resentment. Two people thought they weren’t allowed to be who they were, so they showered each other in accusations.

DVT/SM: What would a woman have to be like to be a good match for you and Project Blueprint?

BJ: Once, I half-jokingly listed a few qualifying criteria on Instagram: No sunny vacations since it ages the skin. Dinner at 11 in the morning. When and how much is eaten will be determined by AI. Bedtime at half past eight in the evening. Scheduled sex only and no pillow talk. Separate bedrooms and no Sunday outings. The woman would have to understand that she is not my number-one priority. In return, she has access to 30 health experts and can become young again with me. I’m not interested in a classical relationship, and I’m not cut out for one, either. I don’t need a work–life balance, because I’m on a mission. I’m making the 75 trillion cells in my body available for a public experiment, and that experiment is: Don’t die!

DVT/SM: When we were welcomed into your home, we met a young woman. What is her role here?

BJ: Kate Tolo is 27 and has spent the last couple of years developing strategies for fashion brands. She’s in charge of the marketing for Blueprint and is also the first woman taking part in the project. That’s why I call her “Blueprint XX.” We want to see what strategies work for women to reduce their biological age.

“Narcissism isn’t part of my measurement protocol.”

DVT/SM: Your body, [which is] as pale as a corpse and entirely hairless, is impeccably sculpted by sophisticated workout plans. When you look in the mirror, what is it that you feel? The curiosity of a scientist or autoerotic desires?

BJ: Narcissism isn’t part of my measurement protocol. I already mentioned that I was 50 pounds overweight for years. In other words: I was fat. Seeing myself in the mirror was self-torture. I hated what I saw and was ashamed of myself for failing. Today, my reflection triggers happiness in me – a happiness that I’m finally able to accept myself.

DVT/SM: Why do you paint your fingernails?

BJ: Because I can. Making your body more beautiful was considered a blasphemous sin for the Mormons. The list of things I couldn’t do was practically endless. Painting my nails bright blue sometimes is part of my religious liberation.

DVT/SM: We don’t want to offend you, but your hair is a strange shade of red and is thinning a little.

BJ: Stress and mental suffering led me to go gray in my late 20s. I don’t dye my hair; I’m testing an herbal tincture to revitalize my hair roots and eyebrows. My gray hair has already been reduced by 80 percent. My hair has also become fuller from monthly PRP autohemotherapy and red-light therapy, which stimulates blood circulation.

DVT/SM: Do you take hormones?

BJ: Yeah, I wear a testosterone patch. Men’s testosterone levels continue to drop once andropause commences at around the age of 40. Weight gain, mood swings, and a loss of libido are the consequences. I also take 17∝-estradiol. A study on mice has shown that that this estrogen significantly promotes longevity but doesn’t induce feminization.

DVT/SM: Wouldn’t it be a strange twist of fate if you, the apostle of eternal life, slipped on a banana peel and broke your neck tomorrow?

BJ: A while ago, I asked about the funniest ideas for my downfall on Instagram. Way up at the top was that I choke on one of the 111 pills that I take every day. Being run over by a bus was also at the top of the list.

DVT/SM: Wouldn’t a totally mundane death be the greatest possible insult to your ego?

BJ: No. There are countless podcasts, videos, and Instagram posts where I advocate my beliefs. AI has stored this material and ensures my continued existence after death. In other words, I am already immortal.

Buy Issue #45 here, which features the original print interview with Bryan Johnson.